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Do the perpetrators of marriage fraud take a course in their country on how to defraud Americans? Hopefully, our American laws will be revised so that fraud perpetrators can't so easily use abuse loopholes in order to get a greencard. Surely there are some spouses that really are abused, so I agree with protection for the true victims of abuse, but something must be done to prevent scam artists from exploiting this loophole. The scam artists are the real criminals that are causing decay of laws meant to protect actual victims of abuse. What revision to the law can be made so as to protect victims of abuse, but stave off parasites of the system?
Last edited by Blind_struck on Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but as you can see from the formation of this group, you are definitely not alone.
It would be interesting to know whether or not there are "green card courses" in some of these foreign countries. It really wouldn't surprise me. There are plenty of English language web sites that give this type of information. Who really knows the number of foreign language sites there are that give step by step instructions on how to committ immigration fraud?
When I first spoke to my lawyer a year ago in regards to my domestic violence charge, and I told him my wife is Russian, he shook his head and said that he has always heard of the existence of a "black book" which gives the instructions to go the DV route, but no one he knows has ever seen it.
Hopefully, with the formation of our group, and as we attract more victims to our cause, we can get the attention of our elected leaders and the general public. They need to know how the current immigration provisions are being exploited and American citizens are being harmed emotionally and financially. We feel as you do, that there are true victims of abuse out there that need protection, but the protection that is being provided currently does not provide safeguards against false claims, fraud, deceit, or deception. Citizens are losing their Constitutional right of due process , and this is one of the things we hope to have corrected.
From my own sorry experience the true courses, and it appropriate to call them that, are those offered by women's groups empowered and funded by the American government.
When you're new to a country and going through normal transition stages (I lived abroad myself for a decade so I know whatof I write) it'ss normal to doubt. The same is true of any cross cultural relationship.
Then when you pick up a leaflet in a library saying you've been abused if, for example, "your husband wants you to work" or "your husband does not want you to work" (thus, all relationships are invariably abusive) ....well, the self doubt leads to fear leads to a trip to the local women's center.
In my situation we were together for six years abroad but it only took nine months in the United States before the restraining orders and the like started coming out.
One of the insidious things about these women's groups is that they portray themselves as social service organizations when, in fact, they are nothing more than radical quasi religious and quasi political groups.
In the end it is the "education" of these fraudsters which cause most of the problems many of us face.
After months of having my civil liberties curtailed I finallt got to court and started winning. It amazed me how quickly these womens groups deserted my ex when it became apparent I knew how to fight back.
As a result her son, my stepson, is now back with his biological father in Europe. She's lost her subsidized apartment and is barely surviving.
Of course none of this will cause the feds to deport her because they won't even accept court papers sent to them because the subject matter involved me.
I fear that eventually she will kill herself. I've accepted the fact I need to stay away. I don't blame her for this mess, though.
It's the government of the United States of America and it's funded organizations that is the problem. They offer the courses that abuse the women they purport to help.
The only solution is to change the laws to bring back due process, fairness and equality into the equation. Do that and there will be fewer victims, male and female, in this process.
Then when you pick up a leaflet in a library saying you've been abused if, for example, "your husband wants you to work" or "your husband does not want you to work" (thus, all relationships are invariably abusive) ....well, the self doubt leads to fear leads to a trip to the local women's center.
In my situation we were together for six years abroad but it only took nine months in the United States before the restraining orders and the like started coming out.
In the end it is the "education" of these fraudsters which cause most of the problems many of us face.
It's the government of the United States of America and it's funded organizations that is the problem. They offer the courses that abuse the women they purport to help.
The only solution is to change the laws to bring back due process, fairness and equality into the equation. Do that and there will be fewer victims, male and female, in this process.
I 100% agree with you what you have stated. These radical feminists organizations and their leaders who are in bed with the law makers have made Men's life harder to live. Every where you go there is pamphlet of DV that if he insults you, yells at you etc is a Domestic Violence. I believe ABC or NBC did a show where they have women hitting men in public to see the response who would come to rescue and guess what it was 0 %. No one came to stop this. If a woman screams or yells at you then it is not a DV but if you do then you are the perpetrator. If these lawmakers wives can keep them happy in bed, then we won't have to see this day. This is my belief or all the lawmakers are WUSS to stand up for Men's rights. In a marital life their will be arguments but it should not be construed as a DV, only physical abuse shall be.
But we are now living in a world controlled by NAZIS...i.e RADICAL FEMINISTS ORGANIZATIONS.
Blind, feel free to PM me with your particulars. I'll be happy to give you some advise based upon my own long (we're into year 3) learning curve.
If you're at the beginning here are a few pointers of a more general nature:
1. The best book I can suggest a newly accused VAWA abuser to read is Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter.
You need to accept the fact that you are guilty of what you have been falsely accused of. Only time can change this perception in any way. As you deal with lawyers, even your own, judges, government officials and everyone who you come into contact with understand you are guilty.
You have an "A" on your forehead and it is not coming off, likely, for as long as you live.
2. Forget any perception you have that life is fair, the innocent are never found guilty, that anyone cares about you. Life is not fair, innocent are often found guilty and no one cares about you (at least in the system).
3. You can become Russ Limbaugh's best friend, rail against women's groups, dream of calling Dateline to do an expose on your case, even call the newspapers and beg for a story. After all, it is not fair (see point 2 about fairness).
The more you act like this (at least in public) the more likely others will see you as less credible and guilty.
4. This is not your country. It does not matter if your Dad came over on the Mayflower. It is their country. You are an embarrassment to the United States of America. The generosity of the American people will help the victim while shunning the abuser (see The Scarlet Letter, above). You can not change this (at least now).
5. In my situation I attempted to give the Shelter where my ex was located copies of her medical reports. After all, she had turned up there directly from a stay in the psych wing of a local hospital.
The response: "It does not matter what she has or has not done. In the end alll men are rapists and all women are victims".
Womens shelters are NOT social service organizations. They are part of a growing billion dollar industry who existence and growth depends upon victims and YOU.
DO NOT have ANY contact with these people without a lawyer present. They know what they are doing. You do not.
6. Do not give your ex ANY victory. Fight everything. If you manage to keep your residence (hope you were renting with only your name on the lease; otherwise get ready to be thrown out of your house) DO NOT let her get her belongings without a court order.
7. If you have not yet been served with a restraining order get your rear end down to the courthouse and get a restraining order against HER. Do this TODAY. I'm not going to tell you what to say but you generally will not need any witnesses to any alleged violence.
Do not sleep the night before you go to Court. Have crappy clothes on. Do not shave. Just tell the judge you're just scared to death of what your ex might do, of the phone threats, of her father in the Russian mafia. You can't sleep. You didn't know how crazy she was until last (night, week).
Do this before she does it to you. And, if she is contact with a local women's group, she will do this to you. It's part of their protocol.
8. File for annulment or divorce as far away from your current location as law allows. For example, if you were married in Nevada but now live in Arizona get on that plane. Under Nevada law they have jurisdiction but you need to file before her legal services people file in Arizona (which also has jurisdiction).
Get away from the help the women's groups and VAWA will provide her free of charge. As soon as it gets complicated and less cost efficient for these people to help her they won't.
Remember...they are a growth business, not a social service organization.
9. When you go to Court on the restraining order forget about fairness, forget about politics and know that your role model is Bill Clinton and you are not a Republican but am a card carrying member of the A.C.L.U.
(As I am not a Republican and do belong to the ACLU that's easier for me than it is for many of you).
The judge does not want to quash the restraining order. The judge does not want to be the person who quashes the order and then has the abuser kill his ex.
Dress well. Talk intelligently. When you got the restraining order against her you needed to be a bum. Now you need to be rich, well adjusted and stable.
Hire the best lawyer you can afford. Sell everything you own to get that lawyer. Believe me, if you lose the restraining order you do not want to see what happens in the divorce.
If you can not afford a lawyer and someone tries to serve you papers lie. Deny you are you. Believe it or not, it is not a crime to lie to a process server in most jurisdictions. Check on yours before you do this.
I give this advise for the following reason:
The only way most judges will quash a restraining order is if they have to. The facts matter only in how they apply to the law.
If you can't afford a lawyer you're likely dead. You need to argue LAW, not fact, and no judge likes to take law lessons from a layperson.
A good lawyer can argue the law. A good lawyer can trap your ex into making statements that make things not fit into the statute.
I have a legal education. I'm very good at what I do.
If I had represented myself in the restraining order cases I'd be dead. Too much emotion.
The annulment / divorce is much easier to do yourself. Get a lawyer for the false accusations.
10. Stay away from the ex, her family, her friends at all times.
If there has to be contact do it with police present.
If she shows up at your work or home call the police.
The relationship is over. You f@@ked up.
11. Understand how VAWA works:
a. NOTHING you, your family or associates say will be considered.;
b. If you keep writing them it only helps your ex's case;
c. No political figure is likely to risk the rath of women by helping you;
d. If there are documents in the public record that would help you get her deported have a lawyer submit them without using your name. You can hire a lawyer just for this purpose.
In fact, it is best not to use the same lawyer who represented you in other matters.
e. An example: The ex gets a restraining order. You get it quashed. She sends the restraining order to St. Albans. It is considered. You send the quash order: it should be considered as it can be independently verified but it will not be in practice. The adjudicators have 6 minutes per case; they can not be calling court houses.
The independent lawyer sends the papers as a "friend of the department" and it gets considered.
Anyway, I hope some of this helped.
My situation is ongoing. I have three divorce / annulment actions in two courts in two states, a marriage invalidation administrative petition, a fraud case in Poland (where we got the visa)...this goes on. Eventually I'll be attacking VAWA itself in the federal courts. But for now...
Good luck my friend. I'm sorry you abused your poor, virginal ex but now be prepared to be raped by your own country and government in retribution.
What? You didn't do anything?
Remember: All men are rapists and all women are victims.
Even if you didn't do anything you are a man so you did.
Even if you didn't.
Once you understand and accept this you are ready to fight.
Blind, feel free to PM me with your particulars. I'll be happy to give you some advise based upon my own long (we're into year 3) learning curve.
Welcome Turkued and Blind_Struck to the board. Turkued, I can see that you are a person with some real experience under your belt. It was 5 years ago that I was in the midst of my nightmare and have had allot of time to reflect on what all happened.
If you're at the beginning here are a few pointers of a more general nature:
1. The best book I can suggest a newly accused VAWA abuser to read is Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter.
You need to accept the fact that you are guilty of what you have been falsely accused of. Only time can change this perception in any way. As you deal with lawyers, even your own, judges, government officials and everyone who you come into contact with understand you are guilty.
You have an "A" on your forehead and it is not coming off, likely, for as long as you live.
After 5 years I have not accepted being guilty of something that I didn't do. Yes there may be massive group think in official circles that accused or convicted in court are guilty always, I and most here do not think this way. As Turkued may mean that one should accept that to be accused of abuse and forced to wear the scarlet letter "A" is something one must learn to cope with. I do believe that as citizens we should not just roll over with out a fight. We need to pin the letters "F A" (False Accusers) back on them.
2. Forget any perception you have that life is fair, the innocent are never found guilty, that anyone cares about you. Life is not fair, innocent are often found guilty and no one cares about you (at least in the system).
It takes a while with most people to come to this conclusion. Those that don't get hurt over and over again until they do.
3. You can become Russ Limbaugh's best friend, rail against women's groups, dream of calling Dateline to do an expose on your case, even call the newspapers and beg for a story. After all, it is not fair (see point 2 about fairness).
The more you act like this (at least in public) the more likely others will see you as less credible and guilty.
Most people if not all people when they are in that heightened sense of outrage and hurt are in no condition to go public about it. Yes, they come off looking bad. The public for the most part doesn't take in account what I just wrote. They think in simple terms of "There are two sides of every story", "Where there is smoke there must be some fire (abuse)", "He should act like a man, stop wining and suck it up" and "Next time buy American".
4. This is not your country. It does not matter if your Dad came over on the Mayflower. It is their country. You are an embarrassment to the United States of America. The generosity of the American people will help the victim while shunning the abuser (see The Scarlet Letter, above). You can not change this (at least now).
My great, great, great, etc., etc. grandfather founded Jamestown many years before the Pilgrims landed. Although he went back to England with Pocahontas so I guess he is not an American. Anyway, in our government there are decent people that have a sense of justice. This is true in the USCIS as well. However the system is so stacked against them in their efforts to help they soon learn to just give up and plod along with the bureaucracy.
5. In my situation I attempted to give the Shelter where my ex was located copies of her medical reports. After all, she had turned up there directly from a stay in the psych wing of a local hospital.
The response: "It does not matter what she has or has not done. In the end alll men are rapists and all women are victims".
Womens shelters are NOT social service organizations. They are part of a growing billion dollar industry who existence and growth depends upon victims and YOU.
DO NOT have ANY contact with these people without a lawyer present. They know what they are doing. You do not.
I heard that women's shelters should be approached like one would with a grizzly bear and her cub. "Do not provoke them, back up slowly, disappear from site and wait for them to forget about you." Of course this is not easy to do for a man. We are warriors when attacked. Most of us have a difficult time pretending to be "Mr. Rogers" with a soft spoken voice. Then tendency is to snarl back.
6. Do not give your ex ANY victory. Fight everything. If you manage to keep your residence (hope you were renting with only your name on the lease; otherwise get ready to be thrown out of your house) DO NOT let her get her belongings without a court order.
I would advise strongly NOT to take, destroy or hide any of her documents and immigration papers. This is considered abuse and it will be used against you in court. You might decide to keep the wedding photos and other proofs of living together and having a "bona fide" marriage. Also expensive items or anything that can be E-bayed should be taken away other wise they will be sold and the money will fund her attorney.
7. If you have not yet been served with a restraining order get your rear end down to the courthouse and get a restraining order against HER. Do this TODAY. I'm not going to tell you what to say but you generally will not need any witnesses to any alleged violence.
Do not sleep the night before you go to Court. Have crappy clothes on. Do not shave. Just tell the judge you're just scared to death of what your ex might do, of the phone threats, of her father in the Russian mafia. You can't sleep. You didn't know how crazy she was until last (night, week).
Do this before she does it to you. And, if she is contact with a local women's group, she will do this to you. It's part of their protocol.
Yes, it certainly is their protocol. They groom these ladies on what to say, how to say it, what to wear and how to act.
8. File for annulment or divorce as far away from your current location as law allows. For example, if you were married in Nevada but now live in Arizona get on that plane. Under Nevada law they have jurisdiction but you need to file before her legal services people file in Arizona (which also has jurisdiction).
Get away from the help the women's groups and VAWA will provide her free of charge. As soon as it gets complicated and less cost efficient for these people to help her they won't.
Remember...they are a growth business, not a social service organization.
It's all about fast easy money for them. That is why the VAWA staff in Saint Albans processes the I-360 with a "Prima facia determination document within 30 days and usually with in 2 weeks. With that document the shelter can begin to collect some of the Billion dollar VAWA funds for their services. Also the courts are funded as well. All they need to collect this money is to find you guilty in some way.
9. When you go to Court on the restraining order forget about fairness, forget about politics and know that your role model is Bill Clinton and you are not a Republican but am a card carrying member of the A.C.L.U.
(As I am not a Republican and do belong to the ACLU that's easier for me than it is for many of you).
Bill Clinton didn't let the scandal wear him down. He knew it would pass and someday most people would look back and shrug their shoulders and wonder what the big deal was all about. He took the long range view that someday all this would pass.
The judge does not want to quash the restraining order. The judge does not want to be the person who quashes the order and then has the abuser kill his ex.
This is especially true if it comes out in trial that you own a gun. However I have seen restraining orders not granted. That happened with Texan. She asked but was denied as there was no evidence for one. Of course there are many/most that are granted without evidence and just on her word alone.
Dress well. Talk intelligently. When you got the restraining order against her you needed to be a bum. Now you need to be rich, well adjusted and stable.
Dress in suit and tie. Cut that hair and look clean cut. Ditch those ear rings. You need to look like a pillar of the community.
Hire the best lawyer you can afford. Sell everything you own to get that lawyer. Believe me, if you lose the restraining order you do not want to see what happens in the divorce.
Amen to that. Judges get disgusted with poor attorneys and reward the other side. Getting a restraining order issued against you isn't the end of the world. Yes it hurts to be sure. It can be used against you if your divorce goes to trial. Most don't. In most cases it will be mentioned in the divorce decree.
Keep in mind there are two types of trials, civil and criminal. The shelters often times use the civil trial system as there are no rules of evidence. The trial is hurry up affair and the accused finds out in the trial what evidence and witnesses are being used against him. That is why a good attorney that knows all their tricks is so necessary. This attorney needs to think fast on his feet and see around all the games. Unfortunately most defense attorneys have little or no understanding of immigration law and how all this comes into play in these cases.
If you can not afford a lawyer and someone tries to serve you papers lie. Deny you are you. Believe it or not, it is not a crime to lie to a process server in most jurisdictions. Check on yours before you do this.
I give this advise for the following reason:
The only way most judges will quash a restraining order is if they have to. The facts matter only in how they apply to the law.
It is best to not be the accused but the accuser. It is best to take legal means to exit the marriage before she does. That is file first. I was told by my woman attorney who had worked in a shelter at one time that "Abusive men do not let their wives go. They hold on to them using abuse." The fact that I was seeing attorneys and plotting my way out of my marriage was proof to her I was not abusive but rather had been a victim of immigration marriage fraud.
If you can't afford a lawyer you're likely dead. You need to argue LAW, not fact, and no judge likes to take law lessons from a layperson.
Judges get irritated with laypersons who want to play Perry Mason in their court. Besides if it comes out that you have any money at all and don't hire an attorney they will think you are cheap AND you probably were with your wife as well. Cheap husbands with their foreign wives play into the stereotype that women's shelters paint of us. Like in the C.I.S. TV program of the abusive husband who chained his cabinents and refrigerator shut so his teenage Asian mail order bride wouldn't eat without his permission.
A good lawyer can argue the law. A good lawyer can trap your ex into making statements that make things not fit into the statute.
I have a legal education. I'm very good at what I do.
If I had represented myself in the restraining order cases I'd be dead. Too much emotion.
"Too much emotion" that is why I advise anyone contacting the USCIS and especially the VAWA staff in Vermont to use an attorney. I have heard from immigration attorneys that when men do get through to the Vermont Service Center they usually always make the case for their wives. Emotion by the husband is always spun into abuse and/or mental instability.
The annulment / divorce is much easier to do yourself. Get a lawyer for the false accusations.
10. Stay away from the ex, her family, her friends at all times.
If there has to be contact do it with police present.
If she shows up at your work or home call the police.
It is also best not to let her know where you are if at all possible. If you go near your ex it can be spun by her that you are stalking her. One fellow I know had his wife call him after she got the restraining order on him. She begged his forgiveness and said she and their child was hungry and could he return home with some food. When he arrived beside his wife and child was a woman from a woman's shelter and the police. He was arrested and you know the rest.
The relationship is over. You f@@ked up.
11. Understand how VAWA works:
a. NOTHING you, your family or associates say will be considered.;
b. If you keep writing them it only helps your ex's case;
c. No political figure is likely to risk the rath of women by helping you;
d. If there are documents in the public record that would help you get her deported have a lawyer submit them without using your name. You can hire a lawyer just for this purpose.
In fact, it is best not to use the same lawyer who represented you in other matters.
Great advise
e. An example: The ex gets a restraining order. You get it quashed. She sends the restraining order to St. Albans. It is considered. You send the quash order: it should be considered as it can be independently verified but it will not be in practice. The adjudicators have 6 minutes per case; they can not be calling court houses.
The independent lawyer sends the papers as a "friend of the department" and it gets considered.
Anyway, I hope some of this helped.
My situation is ongoing. I have three divorce / annulment actions in two courts in two states, a marriage invalidation administrative petition, a fraud case in Poland (where we got the visa)...this goes on. Eventually I'll be attacking VAWA itself in the federal courts. But for now...
Good luck my friend. I'm sorry you abused your poor, virginal ex but now be prepared to be raped by your own country and government in retribution.
What? You didn't do anything?
Remember: All men are rapists and all women are victims.
Even if you didn't do anything you are a man so you did.
Even if you didn't.
Once you understand and accept this you are ready to fight.
I'm sure some of these groups help with the process, but many immigrants already know about VAWA based immigration fraud. The process is advertised in Oprah like talk shows, news papers and magazines. Tips spread quickly in the immigrant community.
The residency seeker that defrauded me started reporting abuse before we married. The courts helped uncover this information when they performed background checks with a medical release for child custody determination. They also learned she was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder just a few days into marriage, but she never told me about it and she may have concealed this information from USCIS as well. I ended up with joint legal custody anyway.
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